FBI and NSA directors are testifying before the House Select Committee on Intelligence concerning allegations of Russian interference in the 2016 campaign and President Donald Trump’s claims his campaign was spied on.
20 March 2017
The FBI investigation itself is creating a cloud over the sitting administration, Nunes tells Comey.
Comey says he can't answer if the FBI has any evidence of any wrongdoing.
"I can tell you that we don't have any evidence," he says, urging Comey to hurry with his probe and ending the hearing.
Trey Gowdy (R-SC) is asking Comey (both were prosecutors once) about hearsay and newspaper articles as proof.
"The system we respect would laugh you out of court" if one showed up with a newspaper article as evidence, Gowdy says. "How do you cross-examine an anonymous source? How do you cross-examine hearsay?"
Given it was ten months from the FBI informing the DNC of the initial hack, and the DNC going public with the announcement, what would the FBI do differently, Hurd asks.
In retrospect, "we would have set up a much larger flare," and just "kept banging on the door," Comey says, adding that the FBI actions were appropriate under the circumstances.
"When was the first time the FBI notified the DNC about the hack?" Hurd asks.
"I think it was August 2015," Comey responds, a year before the first releases by Guccifer 2.0 and WikiLeaks.
When did the DNC provide FBI access to their computers, Hurd asks.
"We never got direct access to the machines themselves," Comey answers. DNC hired a firm that eventually shared their forensics. Though best practice is to get access, "my folks tell me this is the appropriate substitute."
Rep. Will Hurd (R-Texas) asks how sophisticated was the exploit used by the Russians to penetrate the DNC.
Rogers declines to answer in open hearing.
"Tell us why we should care about Russia's use of Americans, helping Russians destabilize our democracy?" Heck asks.
"I truly believe we are a shining city on a hill," Comey answers, but cautions that people shouldn't jump to conclusions. "Now we're going to close our mouths and do our work... because the answers matter."
Heck finally asks a question - why should Americans care?
"I don't think it's in the best interest of our nation for any external entity" to get involved in elections, says Rogers. "This is not likely to stop... absent a change in the dynamic."
"What we have seen today is damning evidence of what Russia did," says Heck, repeating prior assertions by fellow Democrats as if they were proven facts and not bothering to ask Comey or Rogers any questions.
Rep. Dennis Heck (D-Washington) also brings up the Republican party platform, claiming that Trump's administration is changing established American policy in ways "only Putin himself could approve of."
Schiff continues to argue that the GOP platform stripped out provisions about "lethal defensive weapons" to Ukraine at the insistence of the Trump campaign, and even brings up Russian Ambassador Kislyak's presence at the RNC as evidence of collusion.
"Is there any evidence that Russia tried to hack other entities" in the 2016 campaign, besides the DNC and the Clinton campaign, asked Rep. Elise Stefanik (R-New York).
"Many others," Comey says. "There were efforts to penetrate organizations associated with the Republican party," but there were no releases of that information.
Stefanik asks if the 2014 Yahoo hack was done for intelligence purposes. Comey says he can't comment.
"Are transition teams required by law to report contacts with foreign nationals?" Crawford asks.
"I don't know," says Rogers.
Rep. Rick Crawford (R-Arkansas) brings up facts about the Ukraine platform of the Republican Party, arguing that reports that Trump's staff "gutted" it are not true.
Comey says he "can't comment" on the media stories.
"We saw no indication" of efforts to compromise voter tabulation, Comey tells the committee, adding there were efforts to penetrate voter databases and state boards of elections.
Castro says WikiLeaks was at a minimum an unwitting pawn and at a maximum a co-conspirator, for publishing DNC and Podesta emails.
"I think that's fair," Comey responds.
"Yes," says Rogers.
Castro then cites further entries from the Steele Dossier, saying, "the coincidences keep piling up."
Rep. Joaquin Castro (D-Texas) now praising the professionalism and competence of Christopher Steele, arguing that his dossier should be considered accurate.
Comey responds with "not going to comment on that."
"There are no free lunches in Russia," Castro goes on, arguing that every wealthy Russian got rich thanks to president Putin personally.
Rep. Himes cites a tweet by President Trump about the hearing.
"It certainly wasn't our intention to say that today," Comey says.
"I assume the comment is designed to address the leaking of such information," Rogers says, answering Himes about the second Trump tweet.
Schiff is arguing that Clapper's comments are not relevant to the FBI counterintelligence investigation.
Comey explains that the report was about Russian actions, the FBI investigation is about US persons.
Rogers says the quality and quantity of sources were enough for the NSA to be confident in its report.
Comey and Rogers agree with Stewart that Russians most likely believed that Clinton would win the presidential election.
Stewart wondering what prompted the December 2016 intelligence report, commissioned by the Obama administration, that said Russia preferred Trump as a candidate.
"I hate the New England Patriots, so no matter who they play I want them to lose," Comey responds, using a football metaphor.
"To determine motive, you have to crawl into someone's head," Stewart says, asking about difficulty of establishing motive.
Comey agrees, and adds that this is why "we made no judgment on whether the Russians were successful in any way."
"Do you think the Russians expected Secretary Clinton to win?" asks Stewart.
"Yes, as of August," Comey replies.
"Yes," says Admiral Rogers.
"Our plan was to keep you here until you were in such pain that you answer all of our questions," jokes Rep. Chris Stewart (R-Utah).
Stewart gets both Comey and Rogers to admit the intelligence community is not perfect, and can make "meaningful" mistakes.
If Clinton won the 2016 election, Wenstrup asks, what were the Russians planning for November 9? "Have they left?"
"They want to mess with us in a general way," Comey responds. "Their next opportunity to mess with our election is two years from now."
Admiral Rogers tells Rep. Winstrup the Russians "use the media writ large" to spread disinformation, and that this "doesn't seem to tie to particular political party, that tactic."
Swalwell concludes by making the claim Russia "attacked" the US, then urges committee to "unite around this investigation," move forward and "assure the American people we'll never let this happen again."
"The dots continue to connect President Trump and the team in his orbit to Russia," claims Swalwell, asking Comey if be believes that's coincidence or convergence.
"I'm not going to answer that," Comey replies.
"Could we assume any prominent US businessman traveling to Russia would be covered by surveillance?" asks Rep. Swalwell.
Comey says the assumption should be made that foreign visitors are under surveillance.
Swalwell continues to ask about business interests, political interests, tax returns and bankruptcies, painting a picture of President Trump as an obvious target of "foreign adversaries."
"That's not something I'm going to comment on," Comey replies to almost all of the questions and "I can't answer that" to others.
The House Select Committee on Intelligence is back in session, with ranking member Adam Schiff (D-California) asking questions of FBI Director James Comey.
Debunking news stories is "not something the FBI can or should do," Comey tells Schiff.
"I'm not made of steel," Comey tells lawmakers after 3.5 hours, asking for a bathroom break. The committee adjourns for 10 minutes.
Russia and the Soviet Union have tried to influence US elections "for decades," Rogers tells Rep. Brad Wenstrup (R-Ohio).
Wenstrup asks if he would be investigated if he meets with the Iraqi ambassador.
"I'll never tell you," Comey says, explaining that the FBI does not give advisory opinions.
Sources that claim to be disclosing classified information but lie to a reporter are not breaking the law, Comey tells Turner.
What is the responsibility of the intelligence community to correct falsehoods, Turner asks.
"We can't" correct that, Comey responds, as doing so would "give information to our adversaries."
A lot of things published over the past couple of months is "just wrong," Comey says, but he can't say what that is.
Rep. Turner suggests that the very existence of the FBI investigation makes Russians "very happy" because it creates a cloud over the US democratic process.
"Collusion is not a legal term of ours," Comey tells Rep. Mike Quigley (D-Illinois), the FBI is investigating "coordination."
Rep. Speier continues asking Comey and Rogers about the "tarantula web" of Russian ties to Trump's campaign and administration.
Tarantulas don't spin webs to snare prey.
"There is now a cloud that undermines our system," Rep. Turner tells Comey.
Comey tells Rep. Michael Turner (R-Ohio) he's "trying to be studiously vague" on questions about Flynn, because it would be improper in light of the ongoing investigation.
"They'll be back," Comey tells Ros-Lehtinen about Russians, because "they introduced chaos, division and discord" in "this amazing country of ours."
Rogers follows up with claim that Russians are disseminating "fake news" in order to influence elections in Europe.
Russians "were unusually loud in their intervention," in the 2016 election, Comey tells Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-Florida), "almost like they didn't care."
In response, the FBI warned states to prevent any intervention into the actual voting, "and there was none."
Comey speculates that Russia's intent was to "undermine the credibility of our entire democracy enterprise."
"I don't think I would use the term 'warfare'," says Comey, but a "campaign of active measures to undermine our democracy."
Speier says she believes Russian engagement "was an act of war" and proceeds to talk about tarantulas spinning a web and accuse Secretary of State Rex Tillerson of being part of the conspiracy.
"Is Russia our adversary?" asks Jackie Speier (D-California)
"Yes," both Comey and Rogers reply.
Rep. André Carson (D-Indiana) asks Adm. Rogers about Russia's "illegal annexation" of Crimea, depicting Trump as the one man who somehow destroyed the world's united opposition to "Russian aggression."
Rogers rolls his eyes and laughs when Carson asks him about the geopolitical implication of US sanctions.
"If they legitimate their annexation of Crimea, what's next?" Carson asks, noting that US, "as the leader of the free world, is the only check to Russian expansion."
Carson quotes the Steele dossier to argue Trump conspired to remove arming Ukraine from the party platform at the Republican National Convention.
Answering King on leaks, Comey says there is much in the newspapers and "a lot of it is just dead wrong."
People are talking to reporters, or at least reporters are saying saying people are talking to them, in ways Comey said he would describe as "unusually active."
Rep. Peter King quotes former CIA Director and Clinton supporter Michael Morell that "there's smoke, but no fire" to stories about Trump's collusion with Russia. Both Comey and Rogers decline to comment.
King says he expects such an answer, but wants to enter Morrell's quote into the record.
Sewell now attacking "Russian-owned propaganda media RT," casting shade on Flynn's 2015 visit to Moscow.
Rogers says the NSA has been looking into RT for"some number of years."
After Comey declines to comment on Sewell's questions about General Flynn, she refers to RT as "a Russian, US anti-propaganda outlet."
Schiff and Sewell seem more interested in asking their questions that hearing Comey's responses. To most of them, he answers with "no comment" anyway.
Sewell admits she wants to read the press reports into the public record.
Rep. Peter King (R-New York) brings up former DNI James Clapper saying there was "no evidence" of Trump campaign's collusion with the Russians.
"That's not something I can comment on," says Comey.
Conaway and Comey are now discussing Texas football to explain the "logic" of alleged Russian preference for Trump, based on Putin's alleged dislike of Hillary Clinton.
Comey says the Russians "gave up" on getting Trump elected and focused on hurting Clinton, as polls showed she would win.
Answering Rep. Mike Conaway (R-Texas), Comey and Rogers say they still agree with the January 6 intelligence assessment, blaming Russia for wanting to "undermine" US democracy and "denigrate" Hillary Clinton.
Rogers says the NSA is still less confident, given the nature of the source (which he cannot discuss).
Chairman Nunes (R-California) asks Comey if information about Hillary Clinton's Russian connections would be of interest to the FBI investigation of Trump.
"I'm not prepared to comment about the particular campaigns," Comey replies.
Does the FBI generally assume Russian ambassadors are collecting intelligence, asks Rep. Terri Sewell (D-Alabama).
"That's not something I can discuss in an open setting," Comey replies.
Comey listens, stone-faced, as Rep. Himes picks up the baton from Schiff and talks about "connections" to Russia of Trump's campaign officials.
Though Comey continues to reply with "no comment," Schiff (D-California) continues to read his conspiracy theory involving Roger Stone, WikiLeaks and Guccifer 2.0. into the official record.
Gowdy is making a case that the leaks of classified information were a serious abuse of power.
"The unauthorized disclosure of FISA is an extraordinarily unusual event," Comey replies, but notes that FBI surveillance is different from NSA one under Section 702.
Gowdy agrees but says it's a "distinction without a difference" when it comes to trust in the government.
"What I don't want to do is compound what bad people have done" by confirming the leaks in the newspapers, Comey tells Gowdy.
"How would reporters know a US citizen made a phone call to an agent of a foreign power?" asks Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-South Carolina).
"Legally?" Comey replies.
Gowdy asks how many people within the FBI have the authority to unmask a US person's identity. Comey says he can't remember offhand, but more than in the NSA.
"The number is important, but the culture behind it is more important," Comey replies, adding the FBI is "obsessed" with FISA "in a good way."
FBI investigation of the Trump campaign began "in late July" last year,Comey tells Rep. Jim Himes (D-Connecticut).
After several of his questions about Roger Stone, Guccifer 2.0 and John Podesta run into the wall of Comey's "Not something I can comment on," Schiff yields.
Rogers agrees with Schiff in rejecting claims that British intelligence spied on Trump, says they "frustrate" a trusted ally.
Schiff is trying to compare the alleged 2016 election interference to Watergate, claiming that Russians "broke in" to the DNC and then "tried to cover it up using cutouts" like WikiLeaks.
Comey answers by saying the US intelligence community believes that "Russian intelligence services" hacked the DNC.
Comey says there is a "rigorous, rigorous process" to put anyone in US under surveillance.
"So, President Obama could not directly order a wiretap?" Schiff asks.
"No president could," says Comey. But he declines to answer if a FISA court approved or denied a surveillance request.
"I have no information that supports those tweets," Comey tells Schiff about Trump's claims of surveillance by the Obama administration.
Rooney's questioning aims to figure out how Trump's former National Security Adviser Mike Flynn was unmasked, and that information leaked to the media.
Rogers declines to comment on the Washington Post article, or who the nine "current and former intelligence officials" that leaked the information might be.
Rooney is arguing that if those who "break the sacred trust" by leaking aren't held accountable, then reauthorizing Section 702 later this year might be difficulty.
Rogers now explains under what circumstances the identity of the US person is unmasked, noting that US persons are featured in an "incredibly small subset" of NSA reports.
In addition to himself, 19 other individuals have the authority to unmask US persons in reports, Rogers says.
Surveillance under Section 702 applies only to non-US persons outside the US, Rogers confirms to Rep. Tom Rooney (R-Florida).
"Incidental collection" refers to when a US person appears in the course of regular targeting of foreign nationals, Rogers explains, outlining the process when that happens.
NSA normally masks the identity of such a person if the intercept is legitimate, Rogers explains.
"If I spent time in this job worried about unsourced media reporting, I would never get any work done," says Rogers, answering Nunes about media leaks.
Nunes asks Rogers and Comey if Russia changed vote tallies in any of the states.
"No, sir," Rogers replies, prefacing the response with a note the NSA collects foreign intelligence, so it's not the best agency to ask.
"No," Comey replies.
"Please don't draw any conclusions from the fact that I may not be able to comment on some topics," Comey urges. "This work is very complex and there is no way for me to give you a timetable as to when it will be done."
"I can promise you we will follow the facts, wherever they might lead," Comey adds.
Director James Comey confirms the FBI "is investigating the Russian government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 election" citing extraordinary circumstances. He cannot say more, since the investigation is ongoing and classified, Comey says.
Admiral Mike Rogers, director of the NSA, says the agency is doing its best to support the committee's investigation.
He says the NSA stands by its January assessment, the details of which remain classified.
"Only by understanding what the Russians did can we inoculate ourselves against further Russian interference, which we know is coming," saysSchiff.
After laying out the entire alleged conspiracy, Schiff admits it's possible everything in it was a coincidence.
"We simply don't know, not yet," he says, "and we owe it to the country to find out."
Keystone of Schiff's narrative of alleged Russian support for Trump is the scandalous dossier compiled by British ex-spy Christopher Steele and published by BuzzFeed in early January.
Schiff says the committee "found no evidence whatsoever to support that slanderous accusation," referring to wiretaps of Trump, before returning to "Russian attack on our democracy."
Ranking member Adam Schiff (D-California) began his remarks with a claim that Russia acted to "undermine our democracy" and helped Donald Trump become president.
"The Russians successfully meddled in our democracy," Schiff said, describing Hillary Clinton "the candidate Putin despised."
"We know there was not a physical wiretap of Trump Tower," says Nunes, but wants to know if there was other surveillance, and who leaked classified information.
Committee chairman Devin Nunes (R-California) opens with tirade against the "Putin regime" and its "RT propaganda network, which traffics in anti-American conspiracy theories."